The "in times of their rule" is the sort of thing that will get him off the hook, more or less leaving Owen Greyfort the only one in question. Which is just the sort of rules lawyerly thing that got ol’ Owen where he is now.
That’s a very interesting loophole. Opens up some crazy possibilities.
On the one hand, it gives me pause in that the legal & governing authority passes on to the current Baron(ess). Not sure how there can be two or more authorities. It’s like if a king abdicates to his son or daughter, he can no longer issue a Royal Decree. He might make some proclamation, but the current King/Queen would generally have to endorse it to give it full weight.
But, then, who is going to argue with a horde of ghosts?
Also, they could just write up the documents and then back-date them to a time when they were alive and in full authority. It would be pretty hard to question such documents as not being real, and who wants to try and prove that a ghost signed off on them to cast doubt upon their authority? Done right, they could just be papers that anomalously weren’t recorded in the official archives, yet are clearly authentic and have to be accepted.
In addition … we’re dealing with a curse, not (primarily) a legal fiction. As far as the curse is concerned, annulment of a marriage is legitimized by intent, and the consensus intent of the past Barons might pass magical fiction.
Now. How else could that be exploited?
Side Note: thinking deeply upon intent & legalities, Baroness Flannet has already produced heirs. Guess who’s in line for the Barony at this point?
You should re-read this page. It says they can only intervene in matters that happened during their rule. They can annul a marriage that happened during their rule but not one that happened before or after. They could also probably change the tax rate, guard rotation patterns, and a bunch of other stuff so long as it was initiated or changed during their rule before they stepped down or were killed. And as the latest dead baron pointed out, it doesn’t say that the signature has to be from a living past baron.
What I was trying to address was the date of the annulment. If the annulment is dated after their reign is past (disregarding the whole death thing), under normal legal systems it would be outside their authority. So, back-dating the documents for legal purposes.
But, as far as intent and effect upon the curse, what you said applies much more logically, a distinction I was attempting with the terms "legal fiction" and "magical fiction."
Oh, yes. I’ve been thinking on these lines for a few strips. See, while not technically married, the, er, most recent holder of of the title is legally bonded to her son. And so, as the "Consort Mother", she could be considered to be in line for the title under normal circumstances. But, this ain’t normal. So, the baron, and his partner, both technically died when they got turned to stone. (Yes, they got better. Beside the point. Technicalities.) So, the title passes to… who? Well, either the mother, or her young son. And, the kid ain’t available. So, technically, the title has been her’s for some time.
Wow. Being stoned to death by a Medusa does seem to qualify as a horrible death. That does raise the question of whether or not Lucas & Caelin are now immunized from the curse should either of them end up as Baron of Greyfort. Because, depending on how this all shakes out, either one of them very well could end up as the Baron now, which was the point I had in mind in my above Side Note, along with Flannet’s other son.
Not to mention (weird phrase really when you think about it) Cadugan would turn down the Baron title as it’s just not him. He’s married and living with Lucas because he loves Lucas, not for any noble title or whatever, and it’s mentioned a couple of times he checks up on his forest regularly, something he couldn’t do if he became Baron.
I was discussing potential eligible lines of succession, not what would actually end up being the case. Cadugan … not Caelin (*smacks self in head*) … seems first in line to inherit the Barony. Whether he would accept or not is a bit up in the air. There are reasons & circumstances under which he might. And, agreed, most unwillingly. But, IF he did, having been stoned to death _might_ be a magical fiction that _might_ immunize Lucas from the curse.
Flannet is the current Baroness: http://yafgc.net/comic/3093-uh-what-just-happened/
Although, point: If/When Niko dies, Flannet does stand to inherit the Duchy. At which point she has two sons that we’ve met (Cadugan & Charles) are potential heirs should something happen to her. And, the upcoming strip indicates at least one more possible heir. And, that is all assuming she doesn’t outright abdicate directly to Lucas.
Effectively, from a legal standpoint, Lucas is without title at the moment. The title he held has been given to Niko. Lucas is a former Duke, as well as a former Baron. He could contest to have the title returned to him but, from a strict legal standpoint at this time, Flannet is the current Baroness (and probably soon-to-be Duchess). Succession has priority with her direct descendants unless other arrangements take place.
Why can’t the Baroness sign her own legal papers? And why would the Duchess disapprove divorcing when she believes that the curse makes the Baron(ess)’s spouse powerful, surely she doesn’t care to share the wealth with strangers.
Duchess Niko is far more likely to resolve her inner conflicts on this issue through gratuitous slaughter. Because. Evil. Werewolf. Take your pick. Best she remain blissfully ignorant on this topic for all involved.
I’m not up on the intricacies of aristocratic marriage, but there may be some protocol where someone of the station above you has to sign of on your marriage/divorce and other similar bloodline and succession related issues. The previous Barons might have sufficient authority because there was no duke/duchess before this and, back to succession issues, they might have governance in such a situation.
Or, y’know, let us mechanism the plot along and get to the part where Niko takes am ugly dirtnap. Hmmm. Inviting speculation as to: would Niko then become a werewolf ghost haunting Greyfort? The other ghosts hang here because they think it’s a cool spot. Niko might take up that opportunity (if available to her) so she can terrorize the other ghosts & denizens of the castle.
Of course, keeping in mind Arachne’s deathbed warning: fear the afterlife. Niko (and most others) might not have the luxury of a happy haunting ground; some seriously demented & dark Hells may await them.
Actually why wouldn’t the duchess annull the marriages. As far as she’d be concerned, they’d be a threat to her glorious rise to power since the curse could potentially favour any of them.
She doesn’t know they will die. Sure she’d probably just think, (kill them) butthe time it takes to find them would probably just be a chore. Especially when a pen stroke wold do the same and not risk triggering some quirk if the curse had already picked one of the others.
She might be suspciious, but tell her something she’d beleiive and she;d go along with it. Like:
"When I was a servant not annulling the marriages left me right of claim to property in the oft chance they hit it big. But not since I’m the one who’s hit it big I don’t want any of them claiming rights to what I have. Plus, since they were married to me first they’d have more claim to the title of spouse than you."
You can either spend months tracking them down with expensive assasins, or use your ppower as duchess to legally annul the marriages thereby making them irrelevant.
I’m finding it so amusing reading a comic with a character that shares my first name. I just wish I were as sneaky as he is. On the other hand I’m still alive, so I’m ahead of him in some senses.
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I think Robert is just worried about paperwork he might have to do, thought he was over with all that junk when he died.
The "in times of their rule" is the sort of thing that will get him off the hook, more or less leaving Owen Greyfort the only one in question. Which is just the sort of rules lawyerly thing that got ol’ Owen where he is now.
And there’s the answer to "What will happen to Baroness Flannet’s non-divorced or unannulled spouses if the curse gets involved?"
Guess the Greyfort Curse is just being absolutely sure in nuking the spouses of the present Baron(ess).
Leave it to a Greyfort to find a loophole to exploit 😀
Leave it to Owen more like.
That’s a very interesting loophole. Opens up some crazy possibilities.
On the one hand, it gives me pause in that the legal & governing authority passes on to the current Baron(ess). Not sure how there can be two or more authorities. It’s like if a king abdicates to his son or daughter, he can no longer issue a Royal Decree. He might make some proclamation, but the current King/Queen would generally have to endorse it to give it full weight.
But, then, who is going to argue with a horde of ghosts?
Also, they could just write up the documents and then back-date them to a time when they were alive and in full authority. It would be pretty hard to question such documents as not being real, and who wants to try and prove that a ghost signed off on them to cast doubt upon their authority? Done right, they could just be papers that anomalously weren’t recorded in the official archives, yet are clearly authentic and have to be accepted.
In addition … we’re dealing with a curse, not (primarily) a legal fiction. As far as the curse is concerned, annulment of a marriage is legitimized by intent, and the consensus intent of the past Barons might pass magical fiction.
Now. How else could that be exploited?
Side Note: thinking deeply upon intent & legalities, Baroness Flannet has already produced heirs. Guess who’s in line for the Barony at this point?
You should re-read this page. It says they can only intervene in matters that happened during their rule. They can annul a marriage that happened during their rule but not one that happened before or after. They could also probably change the tax rate, guard rotation patterns, and a bunch of other stuff so long as it was initiated or changed during their rule before they stepped down or were killed. And as the latest dead baron pointed out, it doesn’t say that the signature has to be from a living past baron.
What I was trying to address was the date of the annulment. If the annulment is dated after their reign is past (disregarding the whole death thing), under normal legal systems it would be outside their authority. So, back-dating the documents for legal purposes.
But, as far as intent and effect upon the curse, what you said applies much more logically, a distinction I was attempting with the terms "legal fiction" and "magical fiction."
Oh, yes. I’ve been thinking on these lines for a few strips. See, while not technically married, the, er, most recent holder of of the title is legally bonded to her son. And so, as the "Consort Mother", she could be considered to be in line for the title under normal circumstances. But, this ain’t normal. So, the baron, and his partner, both technically died when they got turned to stone. (Yes, they got better. Beside the point. Technicalities.) So, the title passes to… who? Well, either the mother, or her young son. And, the kid ain’t available. So, technically, the title has been her’s for some time.
Wow. Being stoned to death by a Medusa does seem to qualify as a horrible death. That does raise the question of whether or not Lucas & Caelin are now immunized from the curse should either of them end up as Baron of Greyfort. Because, depending on how this all shakes out, either one of them very well could end up as the Baron now, which was the point I had in mind in my above Side Note, along with Flannet’s other son.
Cadugan…and why would either one become baron? Lucas was Baron, but became Duke. Becoming Baron again would be a demotion.
If Flannet were in line for anything, it would have been Duchess rather than Baroness.
Not to mention (weird phrase really when you think about it) Cadugan would turn down the Baron title as it’s just not him. He’s married and living with Lucas because he loves Lucas, not for any noble title or whatever, and it’s mentioned a couple of times he checks up on his forest regularly, something he couldn’t do if he became Baron.
I was discussing potential eligible lines of succession, not what would actually end up being the case. Cadugan … not Caelin (*smacks self in head*) … seems first in line to inherit the Barony. Whether he would accept or not is a bit up in the air. There are reasons & circumstances under which he might. And, agreed, most unwillingly. But, IF he did, having been stoned to death _might_ be a magical fiction that _might_ immunize Lucas from the curse.
Flannet is the current Baroness: http://yafgc.net/comic/3093-uh-what-just-happened/
Although, point: If/When Niko dies, Flannet does stand to inherit the Duchy. At which point she has two sons that we’ve met (Cadugan & Charles) are potential heirs should something happen to her. And, the upcoming strip indicates at least one more possible heir. And, that is all assuming she doesn’t outright abdicate directly to Lucas.
Effectively, from a legal standpoint, Lucas is without title at the moment. The title he held has been given to Niko. Lucas is a former Duke, as well as a former Baron. He could contest to have the title returned to him but, from a strict legal standpoint at this time, Flannet is the current Baroness (and probably soon-to-be Duchess). Succession has priority with her direct descendants unless other arrangements take place.
Why can’t the Baroness sign her own legal papers? And why would the Duchess disapprove divorcing when she believes that the curse makes the Baron(ess)’s spouse powerful, surely she doesn’t care to share the wealth with strangers.
Duchess Niko is far more likely to resolve her inner conflicts on this issue through gratuitous slaughter. Because. Evil. Werewolf. Take your pick. Best she remain blissfully ignorant on this topic for all involved.
I’m not up on the intricacies of aristocratic marriage, but there may be some protocol where someone of the station above you has to sign of on your marriage/divorce and other similar bloodline and succession related issues. The previous Barons might have sufficient authority because there was no duke/duchess before this and, back to succession issues, they might have governance in such a situation.
Or, y’know, let us mechanism the plot along and get to the part where Niko takes am ugly dirtnap. Hmmm. Inviting speculation as to: would Niko then become a werewolf ghost haunting Greyfort? The other ghosts hang here because they think it’s a cool spot. Niko might take up that opportunity (if available to her) so she can terrorize the other ghosts & denizens of the castle.
Of course, keeping in mind Arachne’s deathbed warning: fear the afterlife. Niko (and most others) might not have the luxury of a happy haunting ground; some seriously demented & dark Hells may await them.
Nope. At that point, Niko goes to the afterlife. The afterlife now ruled by Ranna. Who will be well aware of her failures.
I don’t think Ranna is a very forgiving goddess.
Better late then never 😛
Actually why wouldn’t the duchess annull the marriages. As far as she’d be concerned, they’d be a threat to her glorious rise to power since the curse could potentially favour any of them.
She doesn’t know they will die. Sure she’d probably just think, (kill them) butthe time it takes to find them would probably just be a chore. Especially when a pen stroke wold do the same and not risk triggering some quirk if the curse had already picked one of the others.
She might be suspciious, but tell her something she’d beleiive and she;d go along with it. Like:
"When I was a servant not annulling the marriages left me right of claim to property in the oft chance they hit it big. But not since I’m the one who’s hit it big I don’t want any of them claiming rights to what I have. Plus, since they were married to me first they’d have more claim to the title of spouse than you."
You can either spend months tracking them down with expensive assasins, or use your ppower as duchess to legally annul the marriages thereby making them irrelevant.
And then they shout: "How come we never thought about it before?!"
Can a ghost hold a pen?
Depends on what powers they gained by becoming ghosts.
There ain’t no rule that says a dead dog can’t play basketball.
I’m finding it so amusing reading a comic with a character that shares my first name. I just wish I were as sneaky as he is. On the other hand I’m still alive, so I’m ahead of him in some senses.
No, you being alive makes you behind him as well. On the other hand, you will definitely catch with him on this aspect in less than century.
That Owen, he’s a master at finding loopholes.
I’m just going to sit over here, chuckling knowingly at all the rules lawyering.
t!