To them she was a tyrant, even though they were the ones to murder her child and turned her into a monster. Though she did have many killed in turn out of anger.
Well not they, a mob did that. It sounds to me that she butchered countless out of spite and paranoia. She had nice ideas, but was very naive about them. And as someone pointed out, the Orc raids did continue.
More like "She tried to govern turning her back to what their people told her, choosing a naïve dream over them. When things started crumbling around her plans, she still refused to see what was real; stubbornly pressed forward an utopian dream neither part wanted, just her and her lover. Then, her people, neglected and unable to defend themselves for her edicts, burst into violence and a mob killed an inocent child. Then, the stubborn queen threw such a tantrum due to grieve that she became a tyrant, but craziness gets mainly out of the picture due to her final appeal to reason; she was fully aware, at least in the end, that she was being cruel. Then, as happens to most tyrants, she was overthrown".
I know she’s a mother who lost her child but I personally see no reason at all to feel sympathy for her; everything that happened to her was due to her refusing to acknowledge she was not ruling properly her people, letting her ideals rule instead of reality.
What Diabillo said. They didn’t turn her into a monster. She revealed herself as one.
My sympathy goes to everyone who died needlessly and had their lives ruined by a civil war that never needed to happen. The avoidance of which was "Glamor’s" first job as a ruler. The importance of that sort of job is why rulers get the ‘lives of the rich and famous’ existence in the first place, but she was too entitled (pun intended) to realize that.
That is the dumbest thing ever. This means at some point it comes time for whoever has been gouging out eyes to gouge out their own eyes. I doubt they’d do this. Rather they’d take advantage of having eyes in a world filled with blind people who are practically defenseless. Real moral of this parable isn’t about revenge. It’s about not following people with stupid ideas because they sounded good at the time. If you do then you have no one else but yourself to blame.
In reality what happens is someone takes your eye, so now you take his eye. But that isn’t where it ends, he then takes your other eye, you are now blind, so someone you know takes his other eye, he is now blind. Someone he knows takes the other persons eye… and so forth and so on.
Eventually you might end up with one person with one eye. But of course that isn’t how it works either. Especially as we’re talking about killing, not taking eyes. You can’t kill everyone on the other side (many have tried, it rarely is successful), so you just end up with a cycle of violence that goes on forever.
You are indeed correct about following that logical conclusion. As Eric below states, though, it’s about a cycle of violence rather than just "the eyes". It never stops. Every slight felt, no matter how small, "has to be compensated for", or so they feel. And so, the violence keeps going.
But people don’t work that way. If I hurt you, and you seek recompense, or revenge, and hurt me back, I am unlikely to say "that’s fair" instead I will seek to hurt you for hurting me, even though I hurt you first. And back and forth it goes.
I have heard it said about such conflicts "someone had to start it!" Perhaps, but after a while it no longer matters who started it, and there is no real way to know anyway. At some point both sides just have to say "enough" and choose to stop it, or it never ends.
I’ve also heard it said "no peace without justice!", but in those cases there is usually enough atrocities on both sides that I have to ask "what is justice in this case? Jail or kill everyone on both sides that ever did anything bad to the other side? Somehow I doubt that will fly." And again, they either choose to just stop it, or it never ends.
In the case of the comic, where is the justice in any of it? Children are murdered. She becomes a tyrant and hurts many people, not just those responsible for the deaths of her children. They hunt her down and kill her even though the people in reality started it. Its over, and as the victors get to write the history of it being just, but in truth, is it?
Also, as it was a small group being hunted, not an entire nation or people, it is actually possible to kill everyone on that side. Although, even then, I bet she had family that held a grudge and the consequences of that conflict didn’t end with her death.
The way people work it’s actually very useful to remind them that they should limit their revenge instead of going overboard with it.
But, yes, killing off one side is much more reliable way of ending conflict. Sure, in case of nation it’s genocide … but it’s reliable.
Well told, Captain. And now we readers, as well as your listeners (Glon, Trevor, Leland and C’rhynne, lest we forget) now have a more nuanced view of Mad Queen Glamor.
Not necessarily at that particular spot. I hope that at least Princess Sharc managed to have a long and happy life, but ….
The Captain & Final Guard fell there, and enough remains were there for the dust to work its magic. He was not one of the most important figures, so they may have left his corpse there (which seems oddly unlikely). Perhaps enough of his blood remained in the ground for the dust to be effective, even if his body was disposed of elsewhere.
Anyway, the Queen & the Princess could have been captured & executed elsewhere. Or, if they died on that spot, their bodies were removed before enough remains could stay in location permanently. It has been a few centuries. Or, one or the other may well have survived somehow.
Also of note, the entire bag of dust was dumped. It should be blowing around a fair section of the city, so all sorts of other body fragments may get activated over time. Leading to one of many speculations: if the dust comes in contact with different body parts in different locations at different times … is it possible that several instances of a person could be raised? Might a second or a third Captain turn up?
Another speculation: how many species and races might the dust be effective on? Cats, dogs, horses, etc. may all be raised, as well as Orcs or anything/anybody else for which any remains come in contact. Imagine, for example, the horde of mice & rats that could potentially be raised.
I love playing with the parameters of magic items and spells. What if only one grain of dust is required to raise one body from one spec of remains? A dust tornado could sweep through an area and raise millions of creatures in very short order
Since she got to the goblin lands somehow, it’s likely her half-orc daughter did too, & eventually mated with a full-blooded orc, & her blood line passed down to someone who’s already a character in the present day story.
Just a random thought. What if SHE backstabbed her guards. He is clearly run through from behind. Maybe she was able to paint them as the murderers controlling the throne? From what little I’ve seen the two stories don’t make sense together.
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To them she was a tyrant, even though they were the ones to murder her child and turned her into a monster. Though she did have many killed in turn out of anger.
Well not they, a mob did that. It sounds to me that she butchered countless out of spite and paranoia. She had nice ideas, but was very naive about them. And as someone pointed out, the Orc raids did continue.
More like "She tried to govern turning her back to what their people told her, choosing a naïve dream over them. When things started crumbling around her plans, she still refused to see what was real; stubbornly pressed forward an utopian dream neither part wanted, just her and her lover. Then, her people, neglected and unable to defend themselves for her edicts, burst into violence and a mob killed an inocent child. Then, the stubborn queen threw such a tantrum due to grieve that she became a tyrant, but craziness gets mainly out of the picture due to her final appeal to reason; she was fully aware, at least in the end, that she was being cruel. Then, as happens to most tyrants, she was overthrown".
I know she’s a mother who lost her child but I personally see no reason at all to feel sympathy for her; everything that happened to her was due to her refusing to acknowledge she was not ruling properly her people, letting her ideals rule instead of reality.
What Diabillo said. They didn’t turn her into a monster. She revealed herself as one.
My sympathy goes to everyone who died needlessly and had their lives ruined by a civil war that never needed to happen. The avoidance of which was "Glamor’s" first job as a ruler. The importance of that sort of job is why rulers get the ‘lives of the rich and famous’ existence in the first place, but she was too entitled (pun intended) to realize that.
Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
That is the dumbest thing ever. This means at some point it comes time for whoever has been gouging out eyes to gouge out their own eyes. I doubt they’d do this. Rather they’d take advantage of having eyes in a world filled with blind people who are practically defenseless. Real moral of this parable isn’t about revenge. It’s about not following people with stupid ideas because they sounded good at the time. If you do then you have no one else but yourself to blame.
In reality what happens is someone takes your eye, so now you take his eye. But that isn’t where it ends, he then takes your other eye, you are now blind, so someone you know takes his other eye, he is now blind. Someone he knows takes the other persons eye… and so forth and so on.
Eventually you might end up with one person with one eye. But of course that isn’t how it works either. Especially as we’re talking about killing, not taking eyes. You can’t kill everyone on the other side (many have tried, it rarely is successful), so you just end up with a cycle of violence that goes on forever.
You are indeed correct about following that logical conclusion. As Eric below states, though, it’s about a cycle of violence rather than just "the eyes". It never stops. Every slight felt, no matter how small, "has to be compensated for", or so they feel. And so, the violence keeps going.
Remember that "eye for an eye" was supposed to set LIMITS to violence. Eye for an eye, NOT MORE.
But people don’t work that way. If I hurt you, and you seek recompense, or revenge, and hurt me back, I am unlikely to say "that’s fair" instead I will seek to hurt you for hurting me, even though I hurt you first. And back and forth it goes.
I have heard it said about such conflicts "someone had to start it!" Perhaps, but after a while it no longer matters who started it, and there is no real way to know anyway. At some point both sides just have to say "enough" and choose to stop it, or it never ends.
I’ve also heard it said "no peace without justice!", but in those cases there is usually enough atrocities on both sides that I have to ask "what is justice in this case? Jail or kill everyone on both sides that ever did anything bad to the other side? Somehow I doubt that will fly." And again, they either choose to just stop it, or it never ends.
In the case of the comic, where is the justice in any of it? Children are murdered. She becomes a tyrant and hurts many people, not just those responsible for the deaths of her children. They hunt her down and kill her even though the people in reality started it. Its over, and as the victors get to write the history of it being just, but in truth, is it?
Also, as it was a small group being hunted, not an entire nation or people, it is actually possible to kill everyone on that side. Although, even then, I bet she had family that held a grudge and the consequences of that conflict didn’t end with her death.
The way people work it’s actually very useful to remind them that they should limit their revenge instead of going overboard with it.
But, yes, killing off one side is much more reliable way of ending conflict. Sure, in case of nation it’s genocide … but it’s reliable.
Moral of the story, don’t bonk orcs.
Moral of the story: Don’t murder children.
I need to tell myself this the next time my daughter feeds the cat to the waste disposal unit…
But what happened to the surviving princess?
She’s there in the 2nd panel.
Well told, Captain. And now we readers, as well as your listeners (Glon, Trevor, Leland and C’rhynne, lest we forget) now have a more nuanced view of Mad Queen Glamor.
Note that neither Glamor nor Sharc are among the newly raised undead. So she didn’t get killed there.
Oh, you’re right! That’s comforting. A little.
Dunno. Maybe it would not get too bad since Glon is half-orc himself and that’s why she would like him.
Not necessarily at that particular spot. I hope that at least Princess Sharc managed to have a long and happy life, but ….
The Captain & Final Guard fell there, and enough remains were there for the dust to work its magic. He was not one of the most important figures, so they may have left his corpse there (which seems oddly unlikely). Perhaps enough of his blood remained in the ground for the dust to be effective, even if his body was disposed of elsewhere.
Anyway, the Queen & the Princess could have been captured & executed elsewhere. Or, if they died on that spot, their bodies were removed before enough remains could stay in location permanently. It has been a few centuries. Or, one or the other may well have survived somehow.
Also of note, the entire bag of dust was dumped. It should be blowing around a fair section of the city, so all sorts of other body fragments may get activated over time. Leading to one of many speculations: if the dust comes in contact with different body parts in different locations at different times … is it possible that several instances of a person could be raised? Might a second or a third Captain turn up?
Another speculation: how many species and races might the dust be effective on? Cats, dogs, horses, etc. may all be raised, as well as Orcs or anything/anybody else for which any remains come in contact. Imagine, for example, the horde of mice & rats that could potentially be raised.
I love playing with the parameters of magic items and spells. What if only one grain of dust is required to raise one body from one spec of remains? A dust tornado could sweep through an area and raise millions of creatures in very short order
Remember, the whole flashback started with "SHE LIVED!?"
Thank you!!
Hm. I had forgotten that. So it may not have even ended there.
Or she wasn’t *buried* there. Maybe they tore her body to pieces and scattered them?
So that’s how Captain Torvid died. I wonder who taught Princess Sharc & her mom swordsmanship but in their case, swordswomanship is more precised. 🙂
You have me on the edge of my seat!
Honestly, she had it coming. I am very worried about her surviving daughter, though. What happened to her?
Since she got to the goblin lands somehow, it’s likely her half-orc daughter did too, & eventually mated with a full-blooded orc, & her blood line passed down to someone who’s already a character in the present day story.
Sure would be convenient if that was the case, and these nice undead chaps owe fealty to one of our friends. 🙂
Appeals to ‘reason’ tend not to work so well when your enemies had to overthrow you, and you are now finally on the verge of defeat.
t!
Just a random thought. What if SHE backstabbed her guards. He is clearly run through from behind. Maybe she was able to paint them as the murderers controlling the throne? From what little I’ve seen the two stories don’t make sense together.