Wait, Ch’Thier nor Ranna are the Balance: *Marion* is
It is natural that the sisters would ‘squabble’ and Auntie Marion would step in and calm things down, teaching Ch’Thier peace is what caused this whole mess to get out of hand
There’s something tragically common in the notion that they routinely forget a lot of vital, fundamental details – yet they always remember their mutual antagonism.
If you mean, that both of these were forced upon them by their followers, I agree. Their story is indeed one of the most tragic and somewhat frightening vicious circle I have seen.
"Falania" seems too near "Falah’n" to be a coincidence.
Assuming I’m right:
I also wonder if nomenclature/genealogy have kept any other people other than Marion (and possibly the priestesses) aware of the context and history of the name–or if it’s just been kept around because it’s a nice traditional "Biblical" name that people like the sound of?
(I left out Trevor & Co. as part of those "in the know" since despite their own considerable stores of knowledge, they seem to be learning much of this for the first time–like the rest of us mortals!)
I think it’s because, since the gods are formed by the will of their followers…
The FOLLOWERS forget by and large, and as a result, the gods forget. You can see in this page that when pacifism became a significant concept in her following, Ch’thier suddenly became pacifistic too.
Thus, when ‘The gods have mortal roots’ STOPPED becoming common knowledge in their teachings, so did the gods forget.
This sounds like it’s going to end in an ultimatum. This last conflict seems like their most destructive yet, and nothing short of removing them both from godhood will probably stop it.
Ironically I think this actually closes the thinking loop.
An individual who is not a god has more control over their thoughts than a god. A god with a large following is, by and large, the sum of the thoughts of their followers. The larger the following, the less individualistic the god is.
Follow up to previous comment about the sisters squabbling every few centuries
It’s kinda like with forests and fires: sure, you want to prevent fires when ever possible, but nature requires a fire every few decades or so to burn away the underbrush and dead trees to allow new life to flourish (and some trees and plants actually *require* fire to activate their seeds), if you don’t allow the burn off, when a fire *does* start, it gets out of control and destroys more than it should
Which is what was happening with the sisters: every thing was fine a peachy for a few centuries, until they remembered they hated each other and wanted to punch the other in the nose until Auntie managed to calm them down (or at least calm Ranna down), and when you took one of them out of the equation, there was nothing to focus Ranna’s rage on and Auntie wasn’t called upon to resolve things
Well, the worshippers have low lifespan and doesn’t have the big picture as Aunty.
Also they are quite numerous and have influence over people if Aunty is staying low profile.
Don’t believe Marion is (or was) keeping a ‘low profile’, she was just staying out of it until (or when) the siblings actually came face to face, like now
*Specially* now when Ch’Thier is trying to tell Ranna that Ranna is the Bad one and she is the Good one and that’s how it is supposed to be
This… further goes along with what I was saying. Don’t target the goddesses, target the followers. Alter the preachings of Ranna’s clerics, and you can tweak her personality accordingly.
Sadly the invention of post-it notes would not come for ages, or they could have written this down and put it on the back of their shields so they don’t forget.
Actually, I’m wondering if they ever tried to apoint a long lived follower as the official rememberer of this lore for themselves. (Clearly not successfully but it seems like it’d be worth a try)
That is what tends to happen when the gods are powered by belief. It gets worse when gods can merge or take over other gods roles by killing them as they can be forced to change into something they actively oppose by inheriting their followers.
Heh, as I said, they are making the gods into what they want them to be. Of course this world probably has a much smaller population of sentient beings (tens or hundreds of millions in total, not billions), and fantasy worlds have much more homogeneous cultures. In a ‘realistic’ world, and especially one with larger populations, it would be far messier.
In all likelihood you would have one sect making Ch’Thier a pacifist, another would make her even more warlike, a third would have her super strict on who she cared about, and so on. Each would be making Ch’Thier out to be what they wanted her to be for their reasons. Ranna would suffer the same fate – before you could blink she’d be named as the patron of specific nations or groups that would destroy their enemies.
Now, the messy thing here is that these gods are real. So what would happen to them? Would the mixed messages not work so nothing would happen? Would the largest group win simply because they had the most belief? Would the gods become dissociative, their ideologies shifting about by the moment – which would be very interesting when they come into direct conflict? Or would they maybe even split into multiple beings?
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I’m going to start believing that all temple meetings should begin with the drinking of a rootbeer float.
It should only take you a few hundred years to start seeing molasisy drinks in the eucharist cup.
Well, if we don’t start, it’ll never happen!
Wait, Ch’Thier nor Ranna are the Balance: *Marion* is
It is natural that the sisters would ‘squabble’ and Auntie Marion would step in and calm things down, teaching Ch’Thier peace is what caused this whole mess to get out of hand
Yup, not surprised. Pacifism is extremely dangerous ideology.
It’s great in theory but it only works if everyone’s willing to play along.
Just like so many prescriptive models for society.
Very much in the philosophy of Discworld.
Humans (and orcs, goblins, dwarves, evles, etc…) create the gods in their image, or more importantly, in their desires.
You are doing a wonderful job with this history of the Mythos.
Well, at least it’s a few centuries and not a few decades.
Seem like they need like the old Emperors a person who always is tellimg them Memento mori…well, Memento origo better
There’s something tragically common in the notion that they routinely forget a lot of vital, fundamental details – yet they always remember their mutual antagonism.
t!
Lady Marion has probably heard many times in the past both Ch’Their and Ranna pointing at each other and shouting, "Well, she started it!"
True!
And of course neither of them remember who started it…
t!
If you mean, that both of these were forced upon them by their followers, I agree. Their story is indeed one of the most tragic and somewhat frightening vicious circle I have seen.
> yet they always remember their mutual antagonism.
Aim lost? Redouble effort!
Is this priestess one of Naomi’s ancestors?
Yes! Good catch.
I can’t also help but notice the personal name. 😉
"Falania" seems too near "Falah’n" to be a coincidence.
Assuming I’m right:
I also wonder if nomenclature/genealogy have kept any other people other than Marion (and possibly the priestesses) aware of the context and history of the name–or if it’s just been kept around because it’s a nice traditional "Biblical" name that people like the sound of?
(I left out Trevor & Co. as part of those "in the know" since despite their own considerable stores of knowledge, they seem to be learning much of this for the first time–like the rest of us mortals!)
So, it basically comes down to bad memory. Story of my life. 😛
That and centuries of overeating in bodies that never get fat. 😀
Why get fat when you can get tall instead?
I feel the need to tell you how much I am loving this arc.
Definitely scary living in a world where even the gods can have a bad memory.
I think it’s because, since the gods are formed by the will of their followers…
The FOLLOWERS forget by and large, and as a result, the gods forget. You can see in this page that when pacifism became a significant concept in her following, Ch’thier suddenly became pacifistic too.
Thus, when ‘The gods have mortal roots’ STOPPED becoming common knowledge in their teachings, so did the gods forget.
from now on all priests must talk about their mother so they don’t forget this time.
Well, unless schism and orthodox clergy got in the way.
This sounds like it’s going to end in an ultimatum. This last conflict seems like their most destructive yet, and nothing short of removing them both from godhood will probably stop it.
Ironically I think this actually closes the thinking loop.
An individual who is not a god has more control over their thoughts than a god. A god with a large following is, by and large, the sum of the thoughts of their followers. The larger the following, the less individualistic the god is.
Follow up to previous comment about the sisters squabbling every few centuries
It’s kinda like with forests and fires: sure, you want to prevent fires when ever possible, but nature requires a fire every few decades or so to burn away the underbrush and dead trees to allow new life to flourish (and some trees and plants actually *require* fire to activate their seeds), if you don’t allow the burn off, when a fire *does* start, it gets out of control and destroys more than it should
Which is what was happening with the sisters: every thing was fine a peachy for a few centuries, until they remembered they hated each other and wanted to punch the other in the nose until Auntie managed to calm them down (or at least calm Ranna down), and when you took one of them out of the equation, there was nothing to focus Ranna’s rage on and Auntie wasn’t called upon to resolve things
Well, the worshippers have low lifespan and doesn’t have the big picture as Aunty.
Also they are quite numerous and have influence over people if Aunty is staying low profile.
Don’t believe Marion is (or was) keeping a ‘low profile’, she was just staying out of it until (or when) the siblings actually came face to face, like now
*Specially* now when Ch’Thier is trying to tell Ranna that Ranna is the Bad one and she is the Good one and that’s how it is supposed to be
This… further goes along with what I was saying. Don’t target the goddesses, target the followers. Alter the preachings of Ranna’s clerics, and you can tweak her personality accordingly.
Same with Ch’Thier’s clerics
Sadly the invention of post-it notes would not come for ages, or they could have written this down and put it on the back of their shields so they don’t forget.
Actually, I’m wondering if they ever tried to apoint a long lived follower as the official rememberer of this lore for themselves. (Clearly not successfully but it seems like it’d be worth a try)
Maybe they did and went something like this:
"My Lady, please remember that you were born of a mortal woman, and…"
"BLASPHEMER!! DO NOT SPEAK SUCH NONSENSE!!"
*SPLORCT!!*
They became the angel & the devil, 2 opposing sides of the coin.
Ironic that the gods became slaves to their worshippers’ beliefs instead of the usual other way round.
That is what tends to happen when the gods are powered by belief. It gets worse when gods can merge or take over other gods roles by killing them as they can be forced to change into something they actively oppose by inheriting their followers.
Heh, as I said, they are making the gods into what they want them to be. Of course this world probably has a much smaller population of sentient beings (tens or hundreds of millions in total, not billions), and fantasy worlds have much more homogeneous cultures. In a ‘realistic’ world, and especially one with larger populations, it would be far messier.
In all likelihood you would have one sect making Ch’Thier a pacifist, another would make her even more warlike, a third would have her super strict on who she cared about, and so on. Each would be making Ch’Thier out to be what they wanted her to be for their reasons. Ranna would suffer the same fate – before you could blink she’d be named as the patron of specific nations or groups that would destroy their enemies.
Now, the messy thing here is that these gods are real. So what would happen to them? Would the mixed messages not work so nothing would happen? Would the largest group win simply because they had the most belief? Would the gods become dissociative, their ideologies shifting about by the moment – which would be very interesting when they come into direct conflict? Or would they maybe even split into multiple beings?
Being a fantasy world, who knows?
Well, I guess Rich could decide. 🙂
So this is the Road to Ruun?
Well Falania sure fucked things up, didn't she? How the hell does pacifism even get popular when you have an evil murdercult attacking everybody?